Coming to Age

Initially, I was quite nervous coming into the senior center. I did not know what to expect. Would the conversation flow? Would I be awkward and not know what to say or respond? As I sat down at the table I was instantly comforted by the simple fact that we were in a spacious room all sitting at tables together. It reminded me of being seven years old playing bunco with my grandma and her friends, four of us to a table rolling dice. Except this time I was twenty-one and the dice were printed copies of “My Man Bovanne”.

As we each went around the table sharing our word associations from the beginning exercise, it seemed as though we couldn’t get through one person’s entire list of words without the conversation twirling off into new associations, which I particularly enjoyed. Thoughts about how young people nowadays “have no manners” turned into advice of how crucial it was in life to forgive and how the wonderful comedic relief could be. I was but a sponge, soaking in the volleying of associations and thoughts. This remained common in our conversations so that the bulk of our conversations about the readings was about life as they experienced it, and how the times have dramatically changed. One theme that each of the women resonated with was one of community. Loa, Maria, and Peg, each personally described how when they were younger, community and support looked vastly different from what it looks like now. Where support was once local and familial, it can now look like ordering online, or joining a group in which volunteers come to your home to help you. A collective fear that was expressed was one of how quickly technology is advancing, and how it has and will continue to create barriers although it is often intended to make things easier. None of the elder women at my table had children so it was interesting to hear from them how they are navigating technology on their own by signing up for a technology class at the senior center for example.

We talked of things of the past, and of things of the future, while ruminating together in the present. I am so grateful to have had the opportunity to meet with such an open and candid bunch. I don’t take for granted this chance to sit in a room with women who have such a wide range of experiences and who are willing to share their perspective with us. Loa, Maria, and Peg were so engaged in the conversation and eager to reflect on their own experiences which I was delighted to be present for and also engage in. I wondered if anyone had ever asked them explicitly about their experience of growing older, and if this was the first time that they were having a dialogue with young adults about it, I was honored to be there for it. As Loa enthusiastically put it, “I can’t wait to do this again”!

In the Senior Center, I did still have stereotypes about how we will talk about the two readings and what we will focus on. I was worried about how I would communicate my ideas and how we would be sharing our ideas as in pairs or in groups since we were two age groups filled with negative stereotypes. Actually sitting with a group did help give some ease about how we will be communicating. However, I was still worried about how I will put my idea out and keep the conversation going about the readings. Once we did start talking it went very smoothly and I did feel comfortable sharing my ideas. I did enjoy the ideas we shared and how we didn’t get bored or died down. One of the topics we later talked about was sexual activity and developing romantic or sexual relationships. There is a sort of taboo with being an older woman or man that you are not expected to have any sexual or romantic relationship, especially after losing a loved one one. One particular story was about a male relative who was a widower. He had dated many women before and his dates were never accepted by his children. This story helped me realize that there is a purity stereotype with being old: having no sexual need or to be looking for romantic relationships.The most surprising thing for me was the openness about how there is sexual repression and lack of sexual protection at an old age. Most of the push of the suppression is coming from their children or relatives since there is a “purity” thing about being of older age or to not be dating. With the stereotype of being pure, then there is no precaution or warning for using protection. One thing that I found out was an issue is how there is a spike of STDs in retirement or care homes because condoms or any sexual protection is not provided. This stereotype is causing a real tangible harm to a age group, it’s terrifying. Another insight is when we talked about how there is a dependence on others like love ones since, as we get older, we need help with some physical labor. Yet there is this double edged sword where there is a need for help from others but not to be coddled or infantilized by those who are caring for them. From our disscussion, there is more than what is seen in the surface. It’s not just about differences of age or being in relationships, its engrained in families and those around us. The stereotypes like not being sexual has real consequences and dangers to the age group. I learned that the whole age difference and stereotyping is completely unnecessary, even that it is harmful to the age group.

My first time at the senior center was pretty wonderful. It made me miss my great-grandpa and great-grandma a lot. It also made me miss my Grandma Sandra and Grandma Norma as well as Norma’s 5 other sisters.  They are the most wonderful people and I felt right at home at the senior center. That may be because I dress like an old woman almost every day. I am so excited to go back. I found it so easy to talk to the women at my table about the book and short story as well as share how they reminded me of my own life. I am always grateful when I see seniors living life to the fullest. I loved that the women I talked to didn’t see themselves as “old”. I was very nervous at first when going to the senior center, the idea of taking the bus to a place I had never been too and then meeting an unknown number of new people was terrifying. I knew one thing for sure and that was that I really enjoyed the book we read. I found it relatable and fully and truthful. I wish we were able to go to the senior center more than once a month, I think it’s so great. I can already tell this class is going to be such a good experience and will create more of a sense of home and community here in Oakland. All four years of high school I was the student representative for my areas Town Council in San Diego, it gave me such a great opportunity to work with people of all ages and being at the senior center has made me realize I miss it. Not the meetings that lasted way too long, not lack of organization but I miss talking to people from outside my inner circle. I think being out in the community of Oakland someone will be very beneficial for me. Somehow our first visit made me more homesick and less homesick at the same time. I really appreciated that it was so easy to get to from school and so easy to get back. It has already been such a good experience and I am so excited for the rest of the semester, I am excited to read more, I am excited to meet new people in this class, I am ready to learn from people who are different than me. I feel so lucky to have the chance to take this class knowing that other schools don’t have this as an option, we are so lucky to have this experience.

I really enjoyed this first discussion at the senior center. Never before have I had such a blatant conversation about aging, and everything that comes with it. I felt like everyone was being very honest and open about their opinions, which I really appreciated; I think it made for a much more interesting discussion than if we had all been trying to water down or sugar coat our opinions.

The women I spoke with were kind and opinionated. I was a bit surprised that there seemed to be more differentiation in opinion between the older women than there was across generations. We all seemed to agree on broader themes. The main things we talked about surrounded the idea of role reversals, specifically older people being “parented” by their own kids. In both stories, there were instances of the children assuming there were certain things that people could or could not do the older they got, and all of us were very frustrated by this theme.

We also talked a lot about different perspectives. Something we all agreed we found very interesting — and really appreciated — about They May Not Mean To, But They Do versus “My Man Bovanne” was the use of the omniscient third person. This allowed us as readers to see every event from both Joy’s view as well as Molly and Daniel’s views. For all of us, this allowed us to have sympathy for all the characters at different moments (or at the very least, see where the characters were coming from even if we didn’t agree).

The disagreements in our group came more into play in terms of the specifics of the stories. We all agreed that there were some complexities about forming a new relationship at an old age (in the case of Joy and Karl) but one woman thought Molly and Daniel were being harsher in their suspicions than they needed to. Also, some people thought the overall tone of They May Not Mean To, But They Do was hopeful and optimistic, while others thought it only got optimistic towards the end.

While our discussion focused mainly on the readings, we branched off to make connections to our own lives every once in a while. We could all speak to times we’ve been embarrassed by our parents, and how even though we tended to empathize more with the older women in the stories those past experiences helped us understand the children’s points of view a little bit better. At one point, I brought up how I thought a lot could be solved from the characters having an honest conversation about their needs and wants. One woman chimed in to say that she agreed but that it’s hard to know when and how to have that conversation. For her, it took her a long time to realize that her mom even possibly needed help. It was fascinating to hear about her perspective, as I have not yet felt the need to have those kinds of discussions with my parents.

Overall, I had a really wonderful time and I can’t wait to go back to meet new people and discuss new readings.

Going to the Oakland Senior Center this past Monday as part of meeting and socializing with the local senior community was a very fun and insightful experience. It was refreshing to meet these older women in a group setting, and a larger, more casual classroom-type environment, who all had a variety of different life experiences and stories, which gave many different perspectives to the stories that we read. There were also many enlightening conversations about the treatment and portrayal of older women in society, and how that does not align with their view of themselves, given that they view themselves as women and human before they see themselves as elderly, or vulnerable. 

Myrna, Daphne, and Sharon were all lovely women in my group who I got to speak to and have a dialogue with around these topics. It was a meaningful interaction that gave me a lot of perspective I would not have had prior, given my lack of interaction with seniors in my everyday life, outside of my family. They had positive feedback surrounding both the book and short story we were assigned, which also lead to them opening up about their own life and family, and that was incredibly interesting to hear about. All these women had amazing and heartfelt stories to share with me and my group partner, Alex, that I felt very honored and grateful to hear, because they were so open to sharing with us. It was nice to also see how eager they were to know more about us and our opinions on topics they knew were more relevant to the younger generation.  

Discussing everything from our family dynamics to the way we navigate our lives in society lead to some very animated conversations, and it was an amazing experience to be able to be a part of it and share with these women. It felt meaningful to give them the space to talk about these topics and know that they were confident we would hear them and really engage with what they had to say, from politics to current events and even the sort of media they enjoyed watching and interacting with on a regular basis. 

I look forward to the future meetings we will have at the center, and with all the senior women who participate in our events, as they show a clear interest in wanting to interact with us as students of Mills College. The generational difference only amplifies our need for these conversations and brings a fun and compelling dynamic in our enjoyable and necessary discussions. Knowing that I will be able to meet so many different senior women from all walks of life has me already looking forward to our next monthly meeting. I also look forward to seeing the women who decide to come to our class and see what it is that we’re learning and discussing for the remainder of the semester. I’m sure there will be many more engaging and fulfilling subjects to learn within our curriculum and assignments. 

The senior ladies I got to meet were very kind and welcoming. They surprised me because they had a very positive view of younger people. This was unexpected to me, especially given that both of the readings we had just consumed explored how horribly elderly women were treated by their children. Moreover, after some conversation, most of the elderly women at my table revealed that they all could in some way relate to the mistreatment received by the elderly women in both the stories. They talked about how their friends had had similar expectations of being single widowers placed on them by their children, just like Molly and Mama. One of the ladies, Marcia, wondered if we would have changed the assumptions that we had written down on index cards about both young and old people, if the group we were talking with was solely young people or solely old people, instead of a mixture of both. 

One stereotype that the women at my table challenged is that old people are not technologically advanced. Marcia had come prepared with an article she had found online about They May Not Mean to But They Do. The Article was by Penelope Lively and one of themes in the story it talked about was the overwhelming guilt felt by the main characters in the story. Penelope wrote about how Joy felt guilty for being a burden whereas the children felt guilty for not being able to help as much. Marcia also was quick to look up Cathline Schine’s age, 67. Our group talked about how it probably would have been very difficult for Cathline to write this book if she was a young adult and trying to write about people twice her age. Moreover, Marcia assisted our conversation about the effects of intersectionality in “My Man Bovanne” by giving us background information on intersectionality. Another thing that Marcia had researched prior to coming to the discussion was the notion that African American grandchildren recently have developed an interest in preserving their heritage, which related to the children in “My Man Bovanne” wanting their mother to take off her wig and show her natural hair. To say the least, Marcia’s use of technology helped contribute a lot to the conversation. 

One topic that our group explored was the adult child’s need to control their parent’s life. The elderly women at the table shared how a lot of other old people they knew had children who had an insistent need to control their parent’s life especially when it came to their living situation. This is understandable to me as someone who cares deeply for the safety of their parents. However, I think that if like Molly a parent is perfectly capable they should have autonomy over themselves and where they live. As stated earlier, we then went on to talk about how children expect their elderly parents to be single once their significant other dies. Wendy told our group about how her cousin became very upset with her father when he started seeing someone directly after the death of his wife and never forgave him for it, even after his death. In response our group seemed to collectively agree that the happiness of the widow is more important than the perceived betrayal of the dead significant other. We all tended to empathize with Molly and her desire for a relationship after her husband died, despite her children’s wishes. However, as Wendy said, it can be hard on the younger person, especially when you are actually in that position, of having to not think about your parent moving on as an act of betrayal. 

Because I am often drawn to friendships with older folks and appreciate the wisdom and perspectives they have to offer, my wonderful experience at the Senior Center was no surprise to me. The exercise at the beginning was very heartwarming because we all tried to say nice things about the generation we were not a part of, and said less kind things about our own age groups. But talking about them forced us to challenge them: the seniors wrote down words like “health problems” or “sick” to describe older people, and then questioned it, saying that young people can also be unhealthy. My group members then expressed gratitude for their own health. I, on the other hand, described young people as lazy, and the seniors challenged me by saying “no, that’s what old people are like!” We agreed that anyone can be anything, and particularly that forgetfulness was not a sign of age.

My group included a Mills alumna and a native Wisconsinite, who shared a name with a favorite song of mine. We instantly bonded over that, and I ended up giving her the CD with that song! They all seemed eager to talk to me about my life and share their experiences, and I felt that we were friends by the end. We spent most of our time discussing the book, but also had time to talk about life. One woman expressed that she wished she had waited to have children, and advised me to live my life as myself before taking that step. 

And as far as the book, we were all equally annoyed by the characters Molly and Daniel who tried to control Joy’s life without communicating well with her. Ione called them “arrogant little shits,” and I could not agree more. We talked about how sometimes, younger people (or children) feel that they know better than or more than older people, when in fact, they have more experience and wisdom.

I was happy to hear that many people identified with Joy’s character, and we agreed that having her as a main character was a highlight of the book. Hearing the story through her perspective helped to understand why the actions of her kids could seem unfair or frustrating. We also talked about the difference between being alone and being lonely. When Aaron was still alive, though he was distant due to his dementia, Joy was never really alone with him; caretaking gave her a purpose. When she lost him, she felt truly alone. But we agreed that being alone can be wonderful — one of the seniors told me she lives alone in a studio apartment nearby. She reminded me of Joy with her independence. 

I asked the seniors which dynamic was their favorite in the book, and shared that mine was the one between Ben and Joy because it reminded me of my relationship with my grandma, who I’ve also lived with.

My experience visiting the Senior Center was very pleasant. I not only enjoyed the companies of the woman, but I also, enjoyed the interesting conversations we had. All of those sitting in my group brought vastly different perspectives that all ironically tied together. I was very surprised by the ladies in my group because they were far from what I expected them to be. They were all talkative, outspoken, and full of innocent questions.There were characters that they loved and hated. The characters they liked I didn’t really like. The story and article translated differently for each of the woman. Nonetheless, they argued, and bickered until they realize they agreed with each other. In my group specific quotes were highlighted and read from both the article and the story. Those quotes were discussed and challenged. My discussion was very exciting and not for a second dull. I learned so much in such little time from those ladies. I had a very nice time. I am appreciative of the experience. The best part was that all of our minds when trying to understand the texts for a split second were the same age!

My visit to the Oakland Senior Center was initially very nerve-wracking. I was really nervous because I had no idea what to expect. I wasn’t sure if I was going to be able to engage with them because of the age difference. My thoughts about older people were that they were kind of crotchety and that they would not want to hang out with us young folks. However, it was clear that the people at my table were excited to be around young people, so my thoughts went all out of the door which was comforting because I wasn’t sure what was going to happen.

 However, my whole thoughts and feelings changed when I began to engage with the people there, I realized it wasn’t so bad. And I ended up actually enjoying myself!

I was paired with people that actually hadn’t read the story, so I was in a place of meeting them where they were at in regards to the readings. We ended up really focusing our time on the Bambara story. What we all focused on was the idea of sexuality, intimacy, and disrespect towards elders.

When I first read the story, I was completely taken aback by the behavior of the children towards their mother just for dancing with Bovanne. Even the language that they used was completely disrespectful towards their mother. This became a hot topic during our discussion because the folks from the center described in detail how so much has changed and how they would never disrespect their mothers in that way. There was much discussion of comparing the way they were raised and how it had changed over time. The folks from the center were also very open to hearing about how we grew up and about our lives. They were very supportive of our education and how we were able to succeed despite how different it is for college students now.

We came to the conclusion that Miss Hazel just wanted some connection and intimacy with Bovanne. We agreed that there was nothing sexual about the way that they interacted. We discussed the notion of dancing and how dancing could be interpreted as something sexual, but in this case it was not sexual. Miss Hazel was simply trying to connect with Bovanne and that connection was interpreted as something negative. The same thing was interpreted as being negative is the exact same thing that is happening at the Senior Center. They just want connections with one another.

My perspective has completely changed when it comes to older people now. I am actually excited about going back and meeting new people. I also learned that there are different levels to being a “senior citizen.” There are “junior senior, medium senior, and senior senior.” I had no idea about that! I was really surprised about they also did not look really “old” either. I was expecting older people that actually look old, but these people didn’t at all. I am very much looking forward to my next visit.

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