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Even though this was not our first time visiting the seniors, I was still quite nervous and even more excited. For this visit to the Downtown Oakland Senior Center, I had the pleasure of talking with Kitty. Since it was only one senior to three of us Mills students, I was worried that we were going to overwhelm Kitty, but she was very open to sharing her experiences in a joking yet earnest manner that I really admired. Over the course of the conversation, I felt a strengthening connection to Kitty through laughter which made me feel comfortable. 

In thinking about how the “dark flood” rises in our lives, Kitty shared her perspective on how she regards death: “a wall which you should not look beyond”. Since our visit, I have been thinking of this phrase often. I had never heard or thought of death in these words. We should not look beyond the wall, because we cannot look beyond the wall, and whatever is beyond it was not intended for us to know. Kitty stressed how important it is to live in the now, because people too often spend their whole lives planning for a future that they do not yet know. I agree with this sentiment and yet, I cannot stop myself from preparing for what will happen next, and I don’t know anyone who can. Perhaps Fran was living in denial, Kitty suggested; we can live in denial, or make ourselves busy with taking care of others, and still we must make sure we make ourselves a priority. This is one of the larger takeaways from the conversation that I had. So often I think about having to take care of my parents, and my parents having to take care of their parents and me, but Kitty shared with us what she asked her daughter: “who will take care of you”? 

The topic of technology came up again in our conversation as we discussed how facilitative it can be in our everyday lives, and how it can make all the difference for someone, who say, doesn’t have any family or friends to care for them. As I shared a story of an incident in which my parents got scammed online, and as I recalled the time that I myself got scammed over the phone, I realized that incidents like these unfortunately happen everyday to even the most cautious people. Living in fear of the things that we don’t know can hold us back in some ways, and Kitty mentioned that she wrote a poem that she thinks about from time to time about fear as a tool, instead of as a hindrance. 

I am so grateful for this time that we share with the seniors. I only hope that I can provide half as many gems of perspective as I am gaining from these women. 

As before, the experience was meaningful and open about the reading and of our personal life. The conversations were continuous and focused on what we feel with what happened in the reading. The best part is when one of the Seniors told stories that are related to the story and are the best giving real-life stories that relate to one of the themes in the stories. In our conversation about the book, we talked about the pessimism in the character’s behavior and the inevitableness of death in the future. We also went into the topics about being alone and how as we get older we want to change things but can mistake as we do so. For the Mills students, how we compare ourselves to our older counterparts such as our parents or our closest older people. Our conversation did go into the concern, even at times obsession, with death. The reading did break a stereotype about how older people are either reflective in a positive way or filled with regret with how they lived their life. The main character, Fran, was such a downer to which many in the group agreed she would degrade even the most positive emotions she experience at an earlier life. One of the Seniors did open about how it can be lonely and the action to change our surroundings can be a challenge. One particular story she shared was about a friend who lived in an area that the friend never lived before, so she didn’t know anyone there and how she can’t meet her because of driving reasons. Another story was about a couple of her friends who went to a town in Mexico. The issue was that the friends did know how to speak Spanish and in the town, they were staying in was filled with people like them. The issue was they were now stuck in a place they could not speak the language and they did not go to places outside of town. This story points out how when we get to a certain age we want to do a big change in our lives. These stories exemplify how sometimes the drastic changes we take, especially if done without some forethought what would happen if done, can get us stuck somewhere we don’t want to be in. Another topic we talked about did focus on us Mills students and our counters with people in the older age group. For my say, I don’t have people who are of that age group. Just this moment I realized I do know someone from that age group. Hopefully, I remember it for the next meeting. But besides that, I do know those around me (aunts, uncles, and mother) have an extrovert outlook in life. An example is my mother, who, because of her age, expected to stay inside of the house than go out but is very opposite. I believe even when she is older she will be more active than stereotyped usually.

When I arrived at the senior center, I was greeted by the kind faces of those who I befriended during the last visit, and I was heartened by how well they remembered not just my name, but small details about me that I’d forgotten even sharing. Before we got to the book, I felt that we had to catch up. I found myself thinking often of those seniors during the month we were apart, and now feel that I’ve gained a few new friends. As I’ve said before, friendships with age gaps are nothing new to me, having grown up in a multigenerational community of musicians who all feel like eccentric extensions of my family, but I come to be more and more moved by the community of seniors in Oakland who are thoughtful, deep-thinking intellectual women who inspire me. Not only that, but they are kind and fun. I can’t wait to see them again. If you’re reading this: hi Carole!

My table definitely had a meaningful discussion about the book, though some of us agreed that it was excessively long and its meaning could have been captured in far fewer pages. Others particularly enjoyed Drabble’s poetic use of language and her inclusions of humor. We talked a lot about the character of Claude, who seemed to have given up in many ways and perhaps held a “god complex” due to his career as a surgeon. And we talked about Fran’s fast pace of life–she reminded me a lot of those at my table, in fact. I pointed out passages when Fran remembers the unhappiness she felt in her youth, which is partly why her dissatisfaction later in life is not so alarming to her. I read this detail as sad, but was challenged by another in my group, who feels that an older age has brought the happiest period of her life, and thought that Fran must have felt relieved, as she does. Fran, like many other women at the time, may have married hastily or too early, and expressed the loneliness and exhaustion that came with child rearing. My group members confirmed this notion and warned me not to plan out my life too carefully, since that could limit potentially life-changing experiences I may have. 

We began discussing the characters’ attitudes towards death, and one group member noted that young people probably do not think about death much. I shared something very personal with the group, which is that it’s on my mind all the time and I feel very afraid of it. My group members assured me that it will become less frightening as I get older, which was incredibly reassuring to hear. This is something I have a hard time talking about with those closest to me, yet I was able to speak to these women so comfortably about it. I admitted that my connection with them has alleviated some of that fear, not only because of the advice they have given me, but because I have been so thrilled to see them thriving at an older age. These women are active; they are creators, writers, readers, and thoughtful thinkers. They don’t feel that they’re at the end. “Do you think of yourself as old?” one group member asked the other, who responded “No, not usually,” though they are both in their seventies. And “old” is not a bad thing, but these women reassured me that the child always lives inside of you–just as it does in Fran.

Monday’s visit to the Downtown Oakland Senior Center was such a refreshing surprise.  After reading the class’s reactions to their previous visit, I wasn’t surprised by the looks or energy of those attending the meeting, but more so, the depth in which I felt my connection with these women went. 

I found the candidness and rawness of these women refreshing, engaging and encouraging.  The book A Dark Flood Rises, served briefly as a backdrop for our introductions into conversation.  Really though, it was hearing about their lives.  We swapped stories and laughed and it felt as though we were hanging out as I do when I meet a new friend.  I honestly do not know why it was so easy to engage in conversation, perhaps the age difference allows there not to be what I can only describe as a competition or comparison.  Our lives are currently functioning in such different places that it is simply refreshing to hear what it feels like to retire, what one wants to accomplish before death, connecting with grandchildren, and what they fill their time with now. 

I went deep with Angelina talking extensively about politics.  I usually never talk about politics but our philosophies aligned and we were so engaged that we went on until she was supposed to leave for another writing class at the center.  She left briefly but then returned saying the class had been cancelled and she was so happy to reengage in conversation.  At this point however, the rest of our table was talking about music and technology.  We genuinely shared a great connection and laughed a lot.  It was so sweet that myself and Lila spoke during the beginning of class and our fellow tablemates seemed genuinely proud of us.  I, having only met them for a few minutes briefly and Lila, having spent time with them at the last visit.  By the end of our time together, it literally felt not like I was spending time with “older people,” but actually establishing meaningful relationships.  I suppose being in my 40’s, one of my closest friends is in her 60’s so she would be considered a senior in this circumstance.  In reality, these folks are people that it would not be unusual for me to spend time with.  I really cannot speak to our conversations regarding the assigned reading because we were too engaged in life conversations to even get there.  I am very much looking forward to more time spent with my new friends. 

I was very much looking forward to the senior center visit, especially after the last visit. The ladies I sat with were Peg, Marry, Francesca and Alana. We all agreed, after reflecting on the beginning of the book that it is often times so easy to speculate “What if”, as many of the characters do. Christopher thinks “what if” the doctors had done a better job, Fran thinks “what if” she like Sara had died at an early age. This book goes to show that the grass always seems greener on the other side. Even though Christopher is terribly upset by the death of his wife the narrator reveals that Sara and Christopher were not all too happy to begin with, even before Sara got her disease. 

Peg went on to talk about how we all live in a state of denial when it comes to our death. This is very true, especially in America. Americans have created a culture that seems to be deeply afraid of death. We try to ignore death as much as possible, even though it is inevitable. Marry admitted that sometimes when she sees ads on tv selling products preparing the elderly for death that she goes as far as to switch off the TV. She then went on to tell us about how she got an ad in the mail asking her to start preparing for her funeral and it made her feel really uncomfortable. We all appreciated how the book normalized death and showed death intervening with a variety of people at all different ages. 

Because death happens to everyone we did not see old people dying in a heroic way, despite it being suggested as heroic. Heroes are unique and special, whereas death is all too common. Marry then posed the question why the phrase “_____ put up a valiant fight” is used so often in reference to dying people. She questioned if it meant that the people dying were brave for trying to prolong their longevity by experimenting with new medicines and thus prolonging their suffering. I think that this phrase is used so often because we want a happy ending and when we see someone suffering from a terrible disease it ruins our happy ending. So instead of saying that they suffered greatly we say they put up a valiant fight to comfort ourselves. After all, what we say about the dead is only to comfort the living ears. 

Alana and Peg disliked the text. Alana thought that the sentences carried on in a superfluous manner. However, I enjoyed the use of details as well as the witty humor used in the book. Alan thought that the lack of plot was disappointing, however I enjoyed hearing about Fran’s everyday life and the things that mattered to her. Alana wished that the text was broken up with dialogue throughout the book which I readily agreed with. More dialogue in the book would make for a more palatable reading. Peg added that she wished there were chapters in the book, so it didn’t feel like the book dragged on for so long; I also thought that book could have benefited from chapters. We all wondered if the other 20 books Drabble has written follow a similar writing style or not. I would imagine that her writing style has evolved throughout the years. 

This Monday’s visit to the senior center was once again pleasant and enjoyable, especially now that we have introduced ourselves to the lovely women from the center. I found myself looking forward to it since the last time we visited, and it was no less exciting to be there than before. I ended up seeing some familiar faces as well as new ones, which was great.

Our discussion this week surrounding The Dark Flood Rises brought a lot of very insightful conversations around the importance of understanding your mortality. As well as this, we discussed how important it is to take the proper measures to ensure that the person and their loved ones are open to conversations around death and someone’s passing, given the emotional aspect of it that could leave someone unprepared to deal with all that comes after, especially in the midst of their own grief. While it is a hard topic to broach, especially for the ones most effected by their aging not only physically, but in some cases emotionally, it is one that is increasingly important, especially in a society that has always glorified the youth and youthfulness.

When it came to the book itself and its characters, it was interesting to hear all the different opinions regarding Fran. While some of us saw her as a character with a lot of charm based on the way she held so firmly to her independence, others in the group thought that she looked down too harshly at the older people she knew who were more willing to accept the help they needed in the lives. The topic brought up some questions in my mind about the value of independence and how we see asking for help as burdensome up until the point that it is necessary, or we are essentially forced to do so. The different perspectives gave a lot of potential for open dialogue that helped keep the discussion lively and engaging the entirety of the visit.

Though it has only been two of the handful of visits we’ll have for the rest of the semester, it has been a great experience to be able to meet people in the community, especially with a significant generational difference. The conversation has yet to feel forced or stale, and I eagerly await the next visit, to further talk about the books that we have planned to read.

I found the visit to the senior center to be enlightening, wholesome and overall a really lovely experience. The senior center itself is housed in a stunning building, which buzzed with life and laughter all the moments I spent in it. The amount of activity, not to mention the diverse selection of activities offered, buck the cultural stereotypes that seniors are boring, bored or otherwise listless and absentminded. The senior center presents a group of sharp and vivacious people eager to utilize their time with expansion of the mind, exercise of the body and building of community.

The discussion at my table during our visit centered a lot on relationships between mothers and daughters. Everyone at the table was/is a daughter, and most of us are also mothers. We spoke about miscommunications that happened between parents and their children. Often, we reflected, a parent accidentally “says” something to their child, even if they don’t actually speak directly to them. For example, one of the women (I can’t remember her name! Next time I will write everyone’s name down) at our table shared that her daughter in the past accused her of fat shaming. She said that she was surprised and appalled to learn her daughter felt that way. If she ever expressed concern, she said, it was for her daughter’s health and she didn’t intend to shame. I related to this because, although my mom has never talked about my weight or how my weight relates to my health, I did witness her talking negatively about her own body often throughout my childhood. Likely my mom was totally unaware of the effect her words about “saddle sacks” and “thunder thighs” and “spare-tire rolls”, were having on me. This conversation in conjunction with They Don’t Mean to But They Do, helped me realize how much goes unsaid, or is assumed about our parents, and elders in general. Molly and Daniel both make assumptions about their parents. It made me wonder, how many misunderstandings happen because we have been accidentally and silently hurt by our parents in our childhood; how much extra work do we do because we are avoiding a conversation? It also occurs to me that people change! We expect growth from children, some strive for it within themselves, but how many of us assume seniors can’t grow or change and so we don’t bring up a topic we feel was already addressed years, or decades ago? My greatest takeaway from our first senior center giveaway is a personal vow to always try and keep lines of communication open between my mom and I, even when it feels scary.

On a completely different note, another thing that has really stuck with me since the visit is how much perspective I gained about labels and terminology. I have always used the world elder to describe people the same age or older than my parents. We had a brief discussion of words like: elder, senior, old-person etc. Nearly everyone at the table said they disliked the word, elder. I was totally surprised! This word was taught to me because my family reveres elders and I’ve always thought of it as a respectful term. Since hearing that most of the women at my discussion table prefer the label of senior, I have been trying to switch up my language and save the term elder for someone I personally know. This way I feel they would know me well enough to understand I use it only with the utmost respect and admiration. This was really enlightening and kind of made me have a slap-yourself-on-the-forehead-with-an-open-palm moment. Labels matter, not because we need to squeeze everyone into a little container, but because using the labels which people feel comfortable with is respectful. And everyone deserves respect.

I really enjoyed this first visit to the senior center. Coming into it, I was definitely anxious, but tried to stay open and curious instead of writing off the experience before it even happened. I found that the seniors I engaged with came to it also seeming ready to write off young people, but quickly we found ourselves enjoying each other and defying whatever preconceptions we had held of one another. 

We spent a lot of time laughing, which I really appreciated. I think there’s an idea in most media that old people are stoic, so jaded that they can’t (or won’t) have fun anymore, and that was quickly disproved by the folks in my group. Within the first few minutes, we were talking about laughter as a necessity in life–that people who don’t have humor or joy deteriorate quicker than those who do. Laughter as medicine is such a cliché but we all agreed that it was the truth. I think there’s also a gendered divide in who’s allowed to enjoy themselves, to be frivolous and silly, and it was beautiful to be in a room with women and non-men being absolutely frivolous and silly. I see that in my family in particular–there’s a pattern in which, at the end of the day, the men will sit down, have a drink, and tell stories and jokes among one another. Because the women have taken on the roles of the practical caretaking (cooking, cleaning, childcare), when men are engaging in this end-of-the-day relaxation rituals, the women are still doing some form of work. This dynamic has followed all of my grandparents’ generation into their old age. It was a refreshing change to be in conversation with women who are not stuck in their caretaker roles, who are largely just responsible to themselves now, and who can thus be responsible to their own experience of joy. 

In that vein, I expected the senior center to be much more cold and sterile than it was. The building itself and the people in it had a warm and inviting energy–there weren’t undertones of depression or sickness the way there usually are when we think of places where old people gather. I think my conception of places where old people gather got stuck at hospitals and nursing homes, and so this was a welcome wake-up call that old people can and do continue to have healthy, rich experiences and social lives. 

We digressed far from the readings, but we did touch on the experiences of joy in “My Man Bovanne,” that the idea that old women would want to go out dancing is actually not at all far-fetched. Dancing brings a kind of joy that has never been limited to any particular generation. 

Outside of the literature, it’s really wonderful to have real-world interactions with real-world old women! It’s somehow simultaneously surprising and unsurprising that they defy so many of the expectations of old women. 

(Turned in late via SASS accommodations) 

I felt a lot of anxiety at the thought of our first senior center trip. I wasn’t sure what to expect. I think a lot of my anxiety came from the worry that I would say or do the wrong thing and accidentally offend someone. Age is so often treated as something impolite or even taboo to discuss explicitly, so the idea of talking about it with a group of actual seniors made me very stressed. I was honestly terrified while doing the word association exercise because I was worried that if I put anything negative in the senior category the womxn at my table might take it personally and it would ruin the discussion for all of us. Imagine my surprise when every single senior at the table had one or more negative traits associated with age written on their card. As someone who’s queer and nonbinary, I think I was also nervous that someone was going to say something about Molly and Frankie that would make me uncomfortable. There was also some anxiety about how the conversation would go, if all of us would be able to share our ideas in a way that was both accessible and interesting for everyone else at the table.

To say I was pleasantly surprised would be an understatement. The womxn I sat with were incredibly open, kind and welcoming. I felt almost immediately at ease with all of them. It was interesting to me how excited they all were to share with me about themselves, and how genuinely interested they seemed to be in me and my life. They were all obviously happy to be there, and their enthusiasm was contagious. Even before the class officially began I found myself so much more relaxed and excited than I had been just minutes before.

We spent a considerable amount of time on our discussion My Man Bovanne, mostly because it spiraled in so many different ways. We talked about everything from motherhood to sexuality to the concept of intersectionality and the work of the Combahee River Collective. I enjoyed how freely the seniors shared their own personal insights and how excited they were to hear ours. They were so eager to learn more about how we saw the world, and they were incredibly open about their own thoughts, personal and academic. 

Our conversation on They May Not Mean To But They Do, while shorter, was just as compelling. One thing that really interested me was the observation made by one of my group mates that the majority of characters in the book were, in one way or another, driven by their own guilt at the situation and their part in it. We also had a fascinating discussion about the ways in which the expectations that shape our lives are often gendered, and how that affected Molly and Joy throughout the book. We also talked about how the children’s fear of their mother’s sexuality and autonomy was mirrored in both My Man Bovanne and They May Not Mean To But They Do. The senior womxn at my table were kind enough to share their own experiences and the experiences of some of their friends when it came to controlling children and their fears about their parents. I had a genuinely wonderful time, and I can’t wait to do it again.

by Elizabeth Rangel

I was nervous about the visit to the senior center because in my head I had imagined the seniors at the center with full white heads hunched over their walkers, but instead a lot of the women there seemed to resemble my mother. My mother is in her mid-fifties, she’s only 6 years away from being considered eligible for social security benefits for seniors. As a matter of fact, the ladies that were waiting at the table where I took seat made it a point to tell my partner and I that they didn’t necessarily consider themselves seniors either. To them, seniors are those in their early eighties and no longer able to take care of themselves, someone dependent on another.

Not only was  I surprised by the age group that we consider seniors to be, I was surprised to see old women of color. Usually, when I think about seniors I think of old ashy white people but rarely if ever do I immediately think of an older person of color. I do not know if I should attribute to this to the lack of representation for seniors of color in the media or if I factually see less seniors of color due to the great disparity of medical resources available to them. Furthermore, I was surprised by their seemingly careless attitude to my gender presentation. Perhaps I was expecting to be gawked at momentarily, as I am when I am in the women’s restroom, because of my brief interaction with the older members of my extended family. Regardless, they seemed to have no interest in trying to spot the more “feminine” features of my physique, and that very reassuring. I was able to relax around them.

What topics did you discuss with the seniors? We conversed briefly about Tony Bambara’s “My Man Bovane” and shared our thoughts on female sexuality and how it is shaped by age. Something that really stuck out for me from that conversation was how we as children perpetually assign our parents a box wherein they can no longer “progress.” This is to say that we have a certain image of our parents and sometimes, according to the women at the center, it can be difficult for both them and their children to maneuver under the new roles families members take on with age. I thought this explained what transpired in the story perfectly. Ms. Hazel’s children were  uncomfortable at seeing their mother dancing with a man because it shines their mother in a new light outside of her caretaker role (but not entirely as she is to an extent caring for Mr. Bovane).

The women at my table were very open to discussing sex and the norms within that domain, which came to me as yet another surprise, because my mother and the other women in my family aren’t very keen on discussing such a topic. They empathized with Ms. Hazel greatly, and shared their thoughts on how unfortunate Ms. Hazel’s children’s behaviors was. They thought it unfortunate for there to be such shame about a topic so natural such as intimacy and sex, and repeated their previous statements about  feeling trapped in their children’s memories and expectations.

Overall, it was a lovely discussion. Though we were sidetracked by our many thoughts I would say it was all very productive and informative as their thoughts an experiences provided insight into the narrative for myself as mine did theirs.